Maybe it's just because I live in Mexico City or that I am interested in Oswald -- he seems like the biggest mystery in this baffling tale that involves the violent deaths of Kennedy, Tippit and Oswald himself in a few days in Dallas -- but I am glad that you pointed out that there is no evidence that Oswald lied when he denied ever visiting Mexico City.
In later years David Attlee Phillips confirmed Oswald was never in Mexico City. It was just a story the CIA invented to get the American public interested in an invasion of Cuba for revenge. Which is also why Oswald was told to pose as a partisan of Castro. Once LBJ was president, he told his fellow plotters that a war in Vietnam would be ok, but he didn't want another confrontation over Cuba and he for sure didn't want a war with Russia. So the CIA had to cover up their previous Oswald-in-Cuba fairy tale.
TCU, then especially, was known as the college of choice for the less academically inclined kids of ultra-right wing Texas parents. No Vietnam protests there. Kids there supported the war.
I think it was Jeff Morley who described Phillips as a “trust fund baby.” That indicates DAP had inheritance money and wasn’t poor.
I would put him in the “talented but not genius” category. He showed flashes of brilliance during his CIA career, but he became a spy, I think, because he’d failed as an actor. However, he was reputedly a master of disguise, and that stemmed from his experience in the theater. I’ve long thought the confusion over the Antonio Veciana composite sketch of Phillips was due to DAP having somehow altered his appearance, maybe through makeup. Veciana’s subsequent confrontation of DAP in Washington courtesy of Gaeton Fonzi, when Veciana stared at him across a table but wouldn’t swear it was him, was due to DAP having always been in some sort of disguise when dealing with Veciana in the field.
Then again, the composite sketch also resembles J. Walton Moore, who was based in Dallas at the time of the alleged Oswald encounter.
This is a blockbuster post. It summarizes well what many (most?) of us think, i.e. that the Mexico City story was a CIA hoax to justify an invasion of Cuba. What you said about LBJ makes sense. He nixed an invasion of Cuba in favor of ramping up the Vietnam war, so the Mexico City hoax was all for nothing.
Can you substantiate it? When, where and to whom did Phillips confirm LHO was never in Mexico City?
Do you have access to information the rest of us don't have?
Phillips was debating Mark Lane at UCLA in front of a bunch of students. About 1965 probably. This is new information only to people who haven't done a lot of reading back to Nov. 22 and prior. Of course Phillip didn't specify which Oswald doppelganger he was referring to.
Maybe the Hungarian Oswald never went to Mexico City, but the CIA took the American Oswald there to be photographed as part of its plan to justify an invasion of Cuba.
You will never understand Oswald until you understand he was just a worthless piece of fluff, a sucker inserted into the story line as a throwaway item. If it hadn't been Oswald, the selected pansy patsy could have been Nagell or Crafard or Frazier or any one of a hundred others. Read up on your Shakespeare, especially Othello, and you will understand the JFK assassination better. Same story with Tippit. Simply used to be abused and dumped off at the morgue.
To the national security state, we are all suckers and worthless pieces of fluff, easily sacrificed for no particular reason. Our lives don't matter at all.
Absolutely. And the fact that they blew JFK's brains out all over Jackie in broad daylight on television for all the world to see was a statement in itself. It was a big Eff You to the American people and the world, saying we control America and the world, and we don't care about your democratic republic and who you elect. We the unelected national security state decide policy and who lives and who dies. It was an Orwellian and Kafkaesque message that few people fully understood at the time. RFK and JBK understood it and wisely kept their mouths shut.
LBJ knew all about the kill JFK plot and volunteered some of his most tested killers for the effort. If he were afraid of some lingering domestic assassins, he would not have delayed the Air Force One takeoff on Nov22 until 2:45pm. He would not have walked in the JFK funeral parade, and campaigned openly in crowds for the 1964 election.
A picture of tobacco heiress Doris Duke was allegedly found in Roscoe White's trunk along with his diary, the backyard photos, and other items. Do you think Doris Duke played a role in the assassination, perhaps by financing it or part of it?
No, the opposite. She was a good friend of Jackie Kennedy and very much against racism. If anything, Tippit types would add Doris Duke to their kill list.
What do you think about the Roscoe White story as told by his son Ricky, i.e. that Roscoe was the shooter on the grassy knoll who left behind a trunk containing a diary identifying him and two other shooters by their code names which the FBI stole, cables from his assassination handler, an unpublished backyard photo, etc.? True or not?
Roscoe White was involved with JFK's assassination and years of events preceding it. The best indications are that his son took that information and embellished it for the sake of increasing his profit margin. When Oswald was at the School of Illusionary Warfare near Nag's Head, North Carolina, in 1957, Roscoe White was in the same ONI course. They were learning how to be pretend commies, fake attacks in the name of somebody else, and leave convenient damage with somebody else holding the bag. Ultimately that's what the JFK assassination years in the future would be designed to be, viz. killing JFK in the name of fake communists such that Castro would be blamed, an invasion of Cuba would be pretexted, and co-excuses could be made for ginning up the war in Vietnam and war with Russia before they got too far ahead of us in their count of nuclear weapons.
After the SIW class, White and Oswald were on the same boat to Japan so Oswald could start doing his assignment at Atsugi and White could continue on to the Philippines. There he apprenticed under Ed Lansdale to do jungle warfare where villages would be attacked, the remnants of the Huk guerillas would be blamed, and White would help make America's allies look like the good guys coming to the rescue.
Oswald bombed out in Russia, and finally was brought home as a damaged item useful only as cannon fodder someday and meanwhile good for errand boy types of mindless drivel tasks. Once a throwaway nobody was needed for the patsy role in the JFK elimination project, Oswald was dusted off and pumped up for the role of hero, a hero who would do a sham assassination on JFK, motivate him to invade Cuba, and thus resuscitate his stature in the
CIA.
Roscoe White and Lee Harvey Oswald were reunited in Dallas at the Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall graphics company. A CIA contractor for varied types of photoshop work. There, for instance, they made up multiple sets of fake ID for Oswald under the names of Oswald, Alek Hidell, O.H. Lee, and perhaps others so that Oswald could have variable sets of wallet material. Roscoe made sure to fix up at least four different versions of Oswald holding rifle, pistol, and commie newspapers for demonstrating his supposed inclinations toward political violence. Roscoe was amateur enough to re-use the same exact Oswald facial image on all four versions, cut off various fingers, have the wedding ring on both hands at different times allegedly in the same photo session, fail to keep track of divergent shadows, and have Oswald standing at a tilted angle which by the laws of physics would make him tip over onto the ground.
Roscoe was also living across the street from J.D. Tippit so that Tippit could be kept under observation as he helped with Nov22 festivities such as setting up and maintaining sniper team safe houses, keeping them supplied, chauffeur duty, and supporting any odd jobs Jack Ruby and his sister needed done to keep the safe houses built up like temporary bread and breakfast joints. A year earlier Carl Mather of Collins Radio was living four houses down the street. Mather's car was used by a key Oswald doppelganger on Nov22, it had a secret high-tech radio on board for coordinating assassination movement steps, and was used for observing the ambush assassination of Tippit so that Assassination Command Central at Dealey Plaza could be kept updated that all was on schedule. Now that Tippit was dead, it was time to roll the angry cops to Oak Cliff to look for a cop killer. Next they could be deviated to the Texas Theater over a big deal unpaid $1.25 movie ticket.
Ricky White alleges his dad's diary puts his dad on the grassy knoll in the role of Badge Man. Since the Badge Man story is based on a highly questionable smudge from the Mary Moorman photo, Ricky White sounds like he is embellishing here. We do know none of JFK's wounds came from the Badge Man area, and we do know a hatless cop was in that area confiscating film and acting like a belligerent jerk. So the hatless cop could have been anybody. Considering how Roscoe had been babysitting Tippit, he more likely was helping coordinate radio traffic out of Assassination Command Central.
By September of 1971, Roscoe was wearing out his welcome in some way. He had been installed in the Dallas Police in Sept. 1963 just as Oswald was installed in the book depository in Oct. 1963, but by 1971 he was doing blue collar labor in an industrial operation and far removed from his James Bond glory days. His wife had been a hanger on for low tripe work at Jack Ruby's Carousel Club, but Ruby was long gone. Roscoe was probably asking for hush money, and the only or else was what he got delivered to himself. He came back from lunch, he lit his welding torch, and he went up like a torch himself. Someone had cut his acetylene line down low and placed a bucket of gasoline near his knees. Mob type hit, he was in very lousy shape very fast, and died the next day. Just another sucker recruited by the CIA, used, abused, dumped, and snuffed. Like Oswald, Tippit, Ruby, Roselli, Giancana, Nicoletti, Eladio del Valle, David Ferrie, Clay Shaw, and dozens of others.
Lee Bowers saw two guys behind the fence acting squirrelly but not apparently as shooters. The Mary Moorman photo, good copies only, shows two guys behind the fence. The same two are at Zapruder Z475 and nearby frames, hats only visible. Costella Combined Edit Z413 shows Fedora Man at the lower margin two thirds of the way over. These two were there as diversion agents, not shooters. They were pulling strings on party favors minus confetti, or some such, to create bang noise and lots of smoke. Notice all the other shooters (see "37 Shots in Dealey Plaza") had and used smokeless gunpowder. So its non-utilization at the fence line was deliberately done to say "look at me." As in "look at me because I don't want you to notice the real shooters over there." The true shooters were at the storm sewer drain for the Z286 shot to the right forehead, and at the passenger rail cars beyond the automobiles for making the Z342/343 shot into JFK's right temple and out the back of his head as the 3-4 inch exit wound.
I'll never believe the CIA disinformation that Oswald was in Mexico City, anymore than I believe the CIA disinformation that he was in the 6th window! (As captured in the Darnell & Wiegman films, he was the figure known as Prayer Man, standing in the shadowy west/left corner of the TSBD upper steps - immediately adjacent to his ride, Buell Frazier.) And I'll never understand how Morley can believe he was in MC given all the evidence to the contrary!
I lean toward Oswald having been in Mexico City but also impersonated while there. There is evidence pro and con, but I was convinced by the account of Andres Goyenechea about his late mother. I realize it’s hearsay (though there’s a legal exception to the hearsay rule in his case), but I also think he has no reason to make it up. Either she took LHO’s picture coming and going, or she photographed someone who bore an uncanny resemblance to him. Whatever the case, if the Russians ever produce authentic documentation, we might have a much better idea.
I think they may have had them but destroyed them several years after they were seized from Win Scott. My thinking is that either it was a lookalike and/or there was something in the photos other than “Oswald” that they didn’t want anyone to see. The two CIA officers who said they saw photos of Oswald said they saw them only very briefly. Greta Goyenechea never saw any prints. Plus, it’s possible the KGB knew right away it was a “provokatsia” and put on a little “show” for the cameras of some kind. There are many reasons they might have destroyed the photos.
Maybe the American Oswald went to Mexico City on the CIA's dime to be photographed there by the CIA as part of their plan to justify an invasion of Cuba, not the Hungarian Oswald.
Which is precisely why I don't trust that they have actual photos of the real Lee Harvey Oswald! Do I trust CIA associated people like Andres Goyenechea and his deceased mother, who worked for the CIA to tell us the truth?! Absolutely not. Even if they WANTED to tell us the truth, they could be pressured to lie, the way the CIA has pressured tons of people, to keep their mouths shut. "National Security."
The surviving crew members of the USS Liberty were told never to speak of the attack for the rest of their lives. I wonder how that instruction was justified. US "national security" had nothing to do with it. Perhaps Israeli national security.
Marina Oswald was possibly the most inconsistent and unreliable witness in the entire Warren Commission lineup. I think Norman Redlich said something to the effect that they couldn't believe a single thing she said, she had contradicted herself so often. She authenticated the backyard photos (which look very fake) and only belatedly confirmed that Oswald had gone to Mexico City and tried to shoot Gen. Walker. I believe she feared deportation, and it's possible the Soviets only let her emigrate so easily because she agreed to be on the hook to them for some favor in the future. After the assassination, the Soviets disavowed all ties and probably left her to her own devices. That's my sense.
Considering the threats and coercion government agents subjected the Parkland doctors and others to, imagine what Marina suffered. She was essentially alone in a foreign country with no money, no support, two babies, and she couldn't even speak the language. I'm sure she felt compelled to say anything the government wanted her to say.
Took the words right out of my mouth! :) You can't trust anything she says. Alfreda Scobey, WC Atty had a great article "Oswald Data Would Be Disputed" in Jan '65, about how Marina's testimony being unreliable and uncorroborated and would never hold up in an actual trial, and would have been inadmissible had he Lee lived to go to trial. She said most of the "facts" of the WC against Oswald were based on the uncorroborated testimony of Marina Oswald. I don't believe Marina did it maliciously, I believe she was pressured and terrorized by the FBI, and god knows who else, who threatened her explicitly or/or implicitly with deportation for her and her children.
What does Marina say now about the backyard photos (fakes?) and Oswald's alleged trip to Mexico City? Surely someone has asked her. Jefferson maybe? Luna should ask her to testify at the next hearing. That might get the MSM's attention.
Oswald was indoors with his Coke and largely out of sight, so the CIA could later tell any story they wished. No way in hell would they allow him to be seen in public to have an alibi. Frazier was eating lunch in the basement, so he could kill the building power from 12:30-12:33 and allow the framers of Oswald on the sixth floor access to the elevator shaft. That's how they could rappel unseen and escape. Prayer Man, Badge Man, Beverly Oliver, Ed Hoffman, James Files, blah blah are profiteering chaff and sucker stories for kiddies with tummy aches, who want their bank accounts cleaned out more than a little. Morley is looking to tell dangle stories so people will sign up for his $5 per month club to find out what his latest cliff-hanger exciting story is all about.
His sister is the one who announced the book depository job for Oswald to Ruth Paine. The whole book depository was a front for the CIA (see kennedysandking article on the TSBD) and was moved to its Nov22 location only in about April 1963 to be a patsy building while the real shots came from elsewhere. Roy Truly for example was 100% CIA and not on the book depository payroll at all. He wanted Oswald to appear like a fleeing guilty John Wilkes Booth, so he intercepted arriving police and turned them away from Oswald so he could do his repeat city bus escape. Once Oswald was munching popcorn, Truly announced Oswald was the suspect because he hadn't come back from lunch break. He omitted to mention two dozen others hadn't come back either. It's just that Oswald was the only one the CIA wanted hunted down and silenced. Like John Dillinger in a theater alley. For once though, Oswald smelled a rat and didn't take the bait to run off. Had he done so, he would have been shot dead by cops waiting for him in the back alley. Frazier was just a little cog in the machine, and when they needed a mechanism for the rifle to have arrived, Frazier is who they leaned on. In for a penny, in for a pound.
Frazier gave a talk at the City of Allen Public Library, link at their site. It's well worth listening to. I have always wondered if the Enfield allegedly found on the roof of the TSBD was placed there to frame him since he owned the same type of rifle.
The structure of Oswald's designed getaway was that he was supposed to run away like John Wilkes Booth. This would prove to the public that he must be guilty, since why would he run except for being guilty. Then he would be shot down in the theater back alley like John Dillinger, another notion about big criminals already in the memory banks of the average U.S. adult in those days. No way did they want to shoot Oswald on the bus, that would be very hard to explain. How would Westbrook know that early Oswald was a suspect? How would Westbrook know that fast where to find Oswald? Why would the head of police personnel be on the street when his was a desk job? Westbrook and Croy onto the Marsalis bus was just a status check to report to Tippit, who was waiting for Oswald at the Gloco gas station. First bus stop once the Marsalis bus got across the Trinity River to Oak Cliff. From there Oswald was supposed to get prompt delivery by police taxi and Tippit's driving to the Texas Theater. Next Tippit would go to his mistress's at Tenth and Patton to get last-minute instructions from Westbrook about becoming the hero who soon would corner and blow away the presidential assassin back at the theater. That's why he had the honor of making sure where Oswald would be the sitting duck to be picked off.
Oswald was expecting a sham assassination like he trained for with Gen. Walker, where nobody got hurt. With JFK, Nov22 would make Oswald the big hero inside the CIA whose acting faked JFK into a true invasion of Cuba. All he had to do was pretend to be a Castro commie, sit around while others did the harmless shooting, and catch another city bus-- this time to his CIA rendezvous driver at the Texas Theater. But when he heard on the bus JFK had been wounded, he deviated by true taxi for his Beckley room to get a revolver for a little insurance. Westbrook radioed Tippit that Oswald was AWOL from the bus, and multiple witnesses saw a panicked Tippit tear out of Gloco for the record store. There, his five rings on the house phone were unproductive because Earlene Roberts was on the phone with her friend about JFK being shot, so Tippit tore over to Beckley, two honks, then the Zangs bus stop for fallback plan number one. Oswald came to Zangs, got his ride, and now the twin patsies were happily on track again. They thought.
Lansdale & Co. definitely wanted Oswald shot at the Texas Theater, because that morning at 6:30 Tom Bowden the janitor was shoved aside by Dallas cops. They were there to study their dance moves for their afternoon matinee performance, as in where were the audience rooms, the halls, the passages to stampede Oswald out to the rear alley where he would be shot down by other Dallas cops Jack Ruby's friend had brought to be waiting with guns drawn.
To get Oswald to the theater under his own power and not flake out, the CIA had to make sure Oswald would trust them and do as he was told. That's why CIA employee Roy Truly was positioned to save Oswald from any cops, like Marrion Baker. The station wagon pick-up was staged with the real American Oswald for the viewing consumption of the Hungarian sacrificed Oswald, watching out the window. "See Lee, we not only saved you from Marrion Baker, we also true to our word staged a fake getaway for you so suckers will look for you at Ruth Paine's up in Irving." Thus Oswald knew he was receiving royal catering service from his fellow CIA musketeers, and they would sure as can be pick him up at the theater. That's why he had left his last $140 for Marina that morning and taken only $17 for himself. Along with two torn halves of dollar bills in his wallet. One to recognize his theater driver, the other to recognize his escape pilot from the Dallas Red Bird Airport. With friends like these, how could he lose?
His getaway was so threadbare because he was counting on his CIA buds to pick him up and reward him with a retirement in CIA hero veteran paradise. He was going to get his CIA loyal puppy reward for a job well done. Just like Tippit was going to get movie deals and book deals for blowing Oswald away as presidential assassin. Just like Ruby was going to get off for time served and the thanks of a grateful nation for being the real guy who blew Oswald away. Just like Jack Ruby was going to blow the whistle the second time around when he got a retrial. On the boulevard of broken dreams. At least Westbrook got his reward for setting up Tippit's ambush. Westbrook got his cushy CIA advisor reward from Lansdale, namely to help the South Vietnamese police in Saigon set up the Phoenix Program.
Possibly... Although not sure if he was EVER on that bus and got off and took a taxi.. Mary Bledsoe was full of it. I'm more in the camp (though not 100% sure...) that he was picked up in the station wagon on Elm just west of the Depository as seen by Roger Craig and three witnesses in the cars behind it.
I am in this process of chasing for shadows as I found that most KGB files in Budapest were closed about the Tippit Call alleged 1940 foster dad - Emil Gardos - of LHO. Mr Gardos got repatriated [ for Communist / KGB relatives etc]and landed at the Corvina Publishers in 1963...and I found a random security report about a *US Relative who called himself Gardos*...- etc.
In the educationforum i was instructed to forget about it my other proofs of LHO having private friends linked to the KGB [ all Trotzkists as Castro was imagined by some fans at first] they are all bullshits. Which side is more keen on keeping facts unknown - the KGB or the CIA..Die Antwort Mein Frwund Weisst Ganz Allein Der Wind...the abswer s known only by the wind [ Bob Dylan after Marlene Dietrich]
Maybe it's just because I live in Mexico City or that I am interested in Oswald -- he seems like the biggest mystery in this baffling tale that involves the violent deaths of Kennedy, Tippit and Oswald himself in a few days in Dallas -- but I am glad that you pointed out that there is no evidence that Oswald lied when he denied ever visiting Mexico City.
In later years David Attlee Phillips confirmed Oswald was never in Mexico City. It was just a story the CIA invented to get the American public interested in an invasion of Cuba for revenge. Which is also why Oswald was told to pose as a partisan of Castro. Once LBJ was president, he told his fellow plotters that a war in Vietnam would be ok, but he didn't want another confrontation over Cuba and he for sure didn't want a war with Russia. So the CIA had to cover up their previous Oswald-in-Cuba fairy tale.
Appropos of nothing, Phillips was born in Fort Worth and attended TCU.
I assume you mean "Oswald-in-Mexico City fairy tale."
TCU, then especially, was known as the college of choice for the less academically inclined kids of ultra-right wing Texas parents. No Vietnam protests there. Kids there supported the war.
What is known of Phillips's parents? Well-to-do, or not?
I think it was Jeff Morley who described Phillips as a “trust fund baby.” That indicates DAP had inheritance money and wasn’t poor.
I would put him in the “talented but not genius” category. He showed flashes of brilliance during his CIA career, but he became a spy, I think, because he’d failed as an actor. However, he was reputedly a master of disguise, and that stemmed from his experience in the theater. I’ve long thought the confusion over the Antonio Veciana composite sketch of Phillips was due to DAP having somehow altered his appearance, maybe through makeup. Veciana’s subsequent confrontation of DAP in Washington courtesy of Gaeton Fonzi, when Veciana stared at him across a table but wouldn’t swear it was him, was due to DAP having always been in some sort of disguise when dealing with Veciana in the field.
Then again, the composite sketch also resembles J. Walton Moore, who was based in Dallas at the time of the alleged Oswald encounter.
You are right. I was typing faster than I was thinking.
This is a blockbuster post. It summarizes well what many (most?) of us think, i.e. that the Mexico City story was a CIA hoax to justify an invasion of Cuba. What you said about LBJ makes sense. He nixed an invasion of Cuba in favor of ramping up the Vietnam war, so the Mexico City hoax was all for nothing.
Can you substantiate it? When, where and to whom did Phillips confirm LHO was never in Mexico City?
Do you have access to information the rest of us don't have?
Phillips was debating Mark Lane at UCLA in front of a bunch of students. About 1965 probably. This is new information only to people who haven't done a lot of reading back to Nov. 22 and prior. Of course Phillip didn't specify which Oswald doppelganger he was referring to.
Maybe the Hungarian Oswald never went to Mexico City, but the CIA took the American Oswald there to be photographed as part of its plan to justify an invasion of Cuba.
You will never understand Oswald until you understand he was just a worthless piece of fluff, a sucker inserted into the story line as a throwaway item. If it hadn't been Oswald, the selected pansy patsy could have been Nagell or Crafard or Frazier or any one of a hundred others. Read up on your Shakespeare, especially Othello, and you will understand the JFK assassination better. Same story with Tippit. Simply used to be abused and dumped off at the morgue.
To the national security state, we are all suckers and worthless pieces of fluff, easily sacrificed for no particular reason. Our lives don't matter at all.
Including JFK. He was a problem, in the way, so he was squashed like a bug.
Absolutely. And the fact that they blew JFK's brains out all over Jackie in broad daylight on television for all the world to see was a statement in itself. It was a big Eff You to the American people and the world, saying we control America and the world, and we don't care about your democratic republic and who you elect. We the unelected national security state decide policy and who lives and who dies. It was an Orwellian and Kafkaesque message that few people fully understood at the time. RFK and JBK understood it and wisely kept their mouths shut.
LBJ knew all about the kill JFK plot and volunteered some of his most tested killers for the effort. If he were afraid of some lingering domestic assassins, he would not have delayed the Air Force One takeoff on Nov22 until 2:45pm. He would not have walked in the JFK funeral parade, and campaigned openly in crowds for the 1964 election.
A picture of tobacco heiress Doris Duke was allegedly found in Roscoe White's trunk along with his diary, the backyard photos, and other items. Do you think Doris Duke played a role in the assassination, perhaps by financing it or part of it?
No, the opposite. She was a good friend of Jackie Kennedy and very much against racism. If anything, Tippit types would add Doris Duke to their kill list.
What do you think about the Roscoe White story as told by his son Ricky, i.e. that Roscoe was the shooter on the grassy knoll who left behind a trunk containing a diary identifying him and two other shooters by their code names which the FBI stole, cables from his assassination handler, an unpublished backyard photo, etc.? True or not?
Roscoe White was involved with JFK's assassination and years of events preceding it. The best indications are that his son took that information and embellished it for the sake of increasing his profit margin. When Oswald was at the School of Illusionary Warfare near Nag's Head, North Carolina, in 1957, Roscoe White was in the same ONI course. They were learning how to be pretend commies, fake attacks in the name of somebody else, and leave convenient damage with somebody else holding the bag. Ultimately that's what the JFK assassination years in the future would be designed to be, viz. killing JFK in the name of fake communists such that Castro would be blamed, an invasion of Cuba would be pretexted, and co-excuses could be made for ginning up the war in Vietnam and war with Russia before they got too far ahead of us in their count of nuclear weapons.
After the SIW class, White and Oswald were on the same boat to Japan so Oswald could start doing his assignment at Atsugi and White could continue on to the Philippines. There he apprenticed under Ed Lansdale to do jungle warfare where villages would be attacked, the remnants of the Huk guerillas would be blamed, and White would help make America's allies look like the good guys coming to the rescue.
Oswald bombed out in Russia, and finally was brought home as a damaged item useful only as cannon fodder someday and meanwhile good for errand boy types of mindless drivel tasks. Once a throwaway nobody was needed for the patsy role in the JFK elimination project, Oswald was dusted off and pumped up for the role of hero, a hero who would do a sham assassination on JFK, motivate him to invade Cuba, and thus resuscitate his stature in the
CIA.
Roscoe White and Lee Harvey Oswald were reunited in Dallas at the Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall graphics company. A CIA contractor for varied types of photoshop work. There, for instance, they made up multiple sets of fake ID for Oswald under the names of Oswald, Alek Hidell, O.H. Lee, and perhaps others so that Oswald could have variable sets of wallet material. Roscoe made sure to fix up at least four different versions of Oswald holding rifle, pistol, and commie newspapers for demonstrating his supposed inclinations toward political violence. Roscoe was amateur enough to re-use the same exact Oswald facial image on all four versions, cut off various fingers, have the wedding ring on both hands at different times allegedly in the same photo session, fail to keep track of divergent shadows, and have Oswald standing at a tilted angle which by the laws of physics would make him tip over onto the ground.
Roscoe was also living across the street from J.D. Tippit so that Tippit could be kept under observation as he helped with Nov22 festivities such as setting up and maintaining sniper team safe houses, keeping them supplied, chauffeur duty, and supporting any odd jobs Jack Ruby and his sister needed done to keep the safe houses built up like temporary bread and breakfast joints. A year earlier Carl Mather of Collins Radio was living four houses down the street. Mather's car was used by a key Oswald doppelganger on Nov22, it had a secret high-tech radio on board for coordinating assassination movement steps, and was used for observing the ambush assassination of Tippit so that Assassination Command Central at Dealey Plaza could be kept updated that all was on schedule. Now that Tippit was dead, it was time to roll the angry cops to Oak Cliff to look for a cop killer. Next they could be deviated to the Texas Theater over a big deal unpaid $1.25 movie ticket.
Ricky White alleges his dad's diary puts his dad on the grassy knoll in the role of Badge Man. Since the Badge Man story is based on a highly questionable smudge from the Mary Moorman photo, Ricky White sounds like he is embellishing here. We do know none of JFK's wounds came from the Badge Man area, and we do know a hatless cop was in that area confiscating film and acting like a belligerent jerk. So the hatless cop could have been anybody. Considering how Roscoe had been babysitting Tippit, he more likely was helping coordinate radio traffic out of Assassination Command Central.
By September of 1971, Roscoe was wearing out his welcome in some way. He had been installed in the Dallas Police in Sept. 1963 just as Oswald was installed in the book depository in Oct. 1963, but by 1971 he was doing blue collar labor in an industrial operation and far removed from his James Bond glory days. His wife had been a hanger on for low tripe work at Jack Ruby's Carousel Club, but Ruby was long gone. Roscoe was probably asking for hush money, and the only or else was what he got delivered to himself. He came back from lunch, he lit his welding torch, and he went up like a torch himself. Someone had cut his acetylene line down low and placed a bucket of gasoline near his knees. Mob type hit, he was in very lousy shape very fast, and died the next day. Just another sucker recruited by the CIA, used, abused, dumped, and snuffed. Like Oswald, Tippit, Ruby, Roselli, Giancana, Nicoletti, Eladio del Valle, David Ferrie, Clay Shaw, and dozens of others.
Might there not have been someone on the grassy knoll acting as a diversion?
Lee Bowers saw two guys behind the fence acting squirrelly but not apparently as shooters. The Mary Moorman photo, good copies only, shows two guys behind the fence. The same two are at Zapruder Z475 and nearby frames, hats only visible. Costella Combined Edit Z413 shows Fedora Man at the lower margin two thirds of the way over. These two were there as diversion agents, not shooters. They were pulling strings on party favors minus confetti, or some such, to create bang noise and lots of smoke. Notice all the other shooters (see "37 Shots in Dealey Plaza") had and used smokeless gunpowder. So its non-utilization at the fence line was deliberately done to say "look at me." As in "look at me because I don't want you to notice the real shooters over there." The true shooters were at the storm sewer drain for the Z286 shot to the right forehead, and at the passenger rail cars beyond the automobiles for making the Z342/343 shot into JFK's right temple and out the back of his head as the 3-4 inch exit wound.
I'll never believe the CIA disinformation that Oswald was in Mexico City, anymore than I believe the CIA disinformation that he was in the 6th window! (As captured in the Darnell & Wiegman films, he was the figure known as Prayer Man, standing in the shadowy west/left corner of the TSBD upper steps - immediately adjacent to his ride, Buell Frazier.) And I'll never understand how Morley can believe he was in MC given all the evidence to the contrary!
I lean toward Oswald having been in Mexico City but also impersonated while there. There is evidence pro and con, but I was convinced by the account of Andres Goyenechea about his late mother. I realize it’s hearsay (though there’s a legal exception to the hearsay rule in his case), but I also think he has no reason to make it up. Either she took LHO’s picture coming and going, or she photographed someone who bore an uncanny resemblance to him. Whatever the case, if the Russians ever produce authentic documentation, we might have a much better idea.
If the CIA had photos or films of Oswald in Mexico City, releasing them would be to their benefit, but they haven't done so.
I think they may have had them but destroyed them several years after they were seized from Win Scott. My thinking is that either it was a lookalike and/or there was something in the photos other than “Oswald” that they didn’t want anyone to see. The two CIA officers who said they saw photos of Oswald said they saw them only very briefly. Greta Goyenechea never saw any prints. Plus, it’s possible the KGB knew right away it was a “provokatsia” and put on a little “show” for the cameras of some kind. There are many reasons they might have destroyed the photos.
Maybe the American Oswald went to Mexico City on the CIA's dime to be photographed there by the CIA as part of their plan to justify an invasion of Cuba, not the Hungarian Oswald.
Which is precisely why I don't trust that they have actual photos of the real Lee Harvey Oswald! Do I trust CIA associated people like Andres Goyenechea and his deceased mother, who worked for the CIA to tell us the truth?! Absolutely not. Even if they WANTED to tell us the truth, they could be pressured to lie, the way the CIA has pressured tons of people, to keep their mouths shut. "National Security."
The surviving crew members of the USS Liberty were told never to speak of the attack for the rest of their lives. I wonder how that instruction was justified. US "national security" had nothing to do with it. Perhaps Israeli national security.
Jackie Ow says above that David Atlee Phillips confirmed in later years that LHO was never in Mexico City. Jackie's post makes a lot of sense.
Agreed.
If he wasn't in Mexico City, the entire government narrative collapses.
Marina would know if he went to Mexico City, wouldn't she? What's she say, or is she afraid to say?
Marina Oswald was possibly the most inconsistent and unreliable witness in the entire Warren Commission lineup. I think Norman Redlich said something to the effect that they couldn't believe a single thing she said, she had contradicted herself so often. She authenticated the backyard photos (which look very fake) and only belatedly confirmed that Oswald had gone to Mexico City and tried to shoot Gen. Walker. I believe she feared deportation, and it's possible the Soviets only let her emigrate so easily because she agreed to be on the hook to them for some favor in the future. After the assassination, the Soviets disavowed all ties and probably left her to her own devices. That's my sense.
Considering the threats and coercion government agents subjected the Parkland doctors and others to, imagine what Marina suffered. She was essentially alone in a foreign country with no money, no support, two babies, and she couldn't even speak the language. I'm sure she felt compelled to say anything the government wanted her to say.
Exactly!!! And she had two small girls - one a baby to worry about!
Took the words right out of my mouth! :) You can't trust anything she says. Alfreda Scobey, WC Atty had a great article "Oswald Data Would Be Disputed" in Jan '65, about how Marina's testimony being unreliable and uncorroborated and would never hold up in an actual trial, and would have been inadmissible had he Lee lived to go to trial. She said most of the "facts" of the WC against Oswald were based on the uncorroborated testimony of Marina Oswald. I don't believe Marina did it maliciously, I believe she was pressured and terrorized by the FBI, and god knows who else, who threatened her explicitly or/or implicitly with deportation for her and her children.
I think she would be a reliable witness now unless her life is still being threatened, don't you?
What does Marina say now about the backyard photos (fakes?) and Oswald's alleged trip to Mexico City? Surely someone has asked her. Jefferson maybe? Luna should ask her to testify at the next hearing. That might get the MSM's attention.
She also said she took the BYPs but...again...totally unreliable testimony, likely under incredible duress from the FBI etc.
She said he went to Mexico but her word is totally unreliable...see Chad's and my replies below. :)
Oswald was indoors with his Coke and largely out of sight, so the CIA could later tell any story they wished. No way in hell would they allow him to be seen in public to have an alibi. Frazier was eating lunch in the basement, so he could kill the building power from 12:30-12:33 and allow the framers of Oswald on the sixth floor access to the elevator shaft. That's how they could rappel unseen and escape. Prayer Man, Badge Man, Beverly Oliver, Ed Hoffman, James Files, blah blah are profiteering chaff and sucker stories for kiddies with tummy aches, who want their bank accounts cleaned out more than a little. Morley is looking to tell dangle stories so people will sign up for his $5 per month club to find out what his latest cliff-hanger exciting story is all about.
Now Buell Frazier is part of the plot? C'mon. The Dallas cops tried to frame him.
His sister is the one who announced the book depository job for Oswald to Ruth Paine. The whole book depository was a front for the CIA (see kennedysandking article on the TSBD) and was moved to its Nov22 location only in about April 1963 to be a patsy building while the real shots came from elsewhere. Roy Truly for example was 100% CIA and not on the book depository payroll at all. He wanted Oswald to appear like a fleeing guilty John Wilkes Booth, so he intercepted arriving police and turned them away from Oswald so he could do his repeat city bus escape. Once Oswald was munching popcorn, Truly announced Oswald was the suspect because he hadn't come back from lunch break. He omitted to mention two dozen others hadn't come back either. It's just that Oswald was the only one the CIA wanted hunted down and silenced. Like John Dillinger in a theater alley. For once though, Oswald smelled a rat and didn't take the bait to run off. Had he done so, he would have been shot dead by cops waiting for him in the back alley. Frazier was just a little cog in the machine, and when they needed a mechanism for the rifle to have arrived, Frazier is who they leaned on. In for a penny, in for a pound.
Frazier gave a talk at the City of Allen Public Library, link at their site. It's well worth listening to. I have always wondered if the Enfield allegedly found on the roof of the TSBD was placed there to frame him since he owned the same type of rifle.
Don't think I've seen his City of Allen talk! Will have to find it! Agree with you about that Enfield btw!
My mistake. It was hosted by the Sixth Floor Museum.
https://youtu.be/-B-U9WlKwik?si=h_mNsTEs35q197Yh
I thought Oswald was supposed to have been shot dead by Westbrook and his partner on the bus, but he got off early.
The structure of Oswald's designed getaway was that he was supposed to run away like John Wilkes Booth. This would prove to the public that he must be guilty, since why would he run except for being guilty. Then he would be shot down in the theater back alley like John Dillinger, another notion about big criminals already in the memory banks of the average U.S. adult in those days. No way did they want to shoot Oswald on the bus, that would be very hard to explain. How would Westbrook know that early Oswald was a suspect? How would Westbrook know that fast where to find Oswald? Why would the head of police personnel be on the street when his was a desk job? Westbrook and Croy onto the Marsalis bus was just a status check to report to Tippit, who was waiting for Oswald at the Gloco gas station. First bus stop once the Marsalis bus got across the Trinity River to Oak Cliff. From there Oswald was supposed to get prompt delivery by police taxi and Tippit's driving to the Texas Theater. Next Tippit would go to his mistress's at Tenth and Patton to get last-minute instructions from Westbrook about becoming the hero who soon would corner and blow away the presidential assassin back at the theater. That's why he had the honor of making sure where Oswald would be the sitting duck to be picked off.
Oswald was expecting a sham assassination like he trained for with Gen. Walker, where nobody got hurt. With JFK, Nov22 would make Oswald the big hero inside the CIA whose acting faked JFK into a true invasion of Cuba. All he had to do was pretend to be a Castro commie, sit around while others did the harmless shooting, and catch another city bus-- this time to his CIA rendezvous driver at the Texas Theater. But when he heard on the bus JFK had been wounded, he deviated by true taxi for his Beckley room to get a revolver for a little insurance. Westbrook radioed Tippit that Oswald was AWOL from the bus, and multiple witnesses saw a panicked Tippit tear out of Gloco for the record store. There, his five rings on the house phone were unproductive because Earlene Roberts was on the phone with her friend about JFK being shot, so Tippit tore over to Beckley, two honks, then the Zangs bus stop for fallback plan number one. Oswald came to Zangs, got his ride, and now the twin patsies were happily on track again. They thought.
Lansdale & Co. definitely wanted Oswald shot at the Texas Theater, because that morning at 6:30 Tom Bowden the janitor was shoved aside by Dallas cops. They were there to study their dance moves for their afternoon matinee performance, as in where were the audience rooms, the halls, the passages to stampede Oswald out to the rear alley where he would be shot down by other Dallas cops Jack Ruby's friend had brought to be waiting with guns drawn.
To get Oswald to the theater under his own power and not flake out, the CIA had to make sure Oswald would trust them and do as he was told. That's why CIA employee Roy Truly was positioned to save Oswald from any cops, like Marrion Baker. The station wagon pick-up was staged with the real American Oswald for the viewing consumption of the Hungarian sacrificed Oswald, watching out the window. "See Lee, we not only saved you from Marrion Baker, we also true to our word staged a fake getaway for you so suckers will look for you at Ruth Paine's up in Irving." Thus Oswald knew he was receiving royal catering service from his fellow CIA musketeers, and they would sure as can be pick him up at the theater. That's why he had left his last $140 for Marina that morning and taken only $17 for himself. Along with two torn halves of dollar bills in his wallet. One to recognize his theater driver, the other to recognize his escape pilot from the Dallas Red Bird Airport. With friends like these, how could he lose?
His getaway was so threadbare because he was counting on his CIA buds to pick him up and reward him with a retirement in CIA hero veteran paradise. He was going to get his CIA loyal puppy reward for a job well done. Just like Tippit was going to get movie deals and book deals for blowing Oswald away as presidential assassin. Just like Ruby was going to get off for time served and the thanks of a grateful nation for being the real guy who blew Oswald away. Just like Jack Ruby was going to blow the whistle the second time around when he got a retrial. On the boulevard of broken dreams. At least Westbrook got his reward for setting up Tippit's ambush. Westbrook got his cushy CIA advisor reward from Lansdale, namely to help the South Vietnamese police in Saigon set up the Phoenix Program.
Why was Tippit killed and who killed him? Ruby and his boyfriend?
Possibly... Although not sure if he was EVER on that bus and got off and took a taxi.. Mary Bledsoe was full of it. I'm more in the camp (though not 100% sure...) that he was picked up in the station wagon on Elm just west of the Depository as seen by Roger Craig and three witnesses in the cars behind it.
Ruth Paine's station wagon? Did Craig describe the driver?
My guess is that LHO smelled a rat and managed to avoid getting murdered before reaching the police station as planned.
Luna should try to get Marina to testify about the authenticity of the backyard photos and the alleged Mexico City trip at the next hearing.
You could write a helluva book or screenplay.
I am in this process of chasing for shadows as I found that most KGB files in Budapest were closed about the Tippit Call alleged 1940 foster dad - Emil Gardos - of LHO. Mr Gardos got repatriated [ for Communist / KGB relatives etc]and landed at the Corvina Publishers in 1963...and I found a random security report about a *US Relative who called himself Gardos*...- etc.
In the educationforum i was instructed to forget about it my other proofs of LHO having private friends linked to the KGB [ all Trotzkists as Castro was imagined by some fans at first] they are all bullshits. Which side is more keen on keeping facts unknown - the KGB or the CIA..Die Antwort Mein Frwund Weisst Ganz Allein Der Wind...the abswer s known only by the wind [ Bob Dylan after Marlene Dietrich]
I love that pic of Oswald + Raphael Cruz (Sen. Ted Cruz's father) distributing commie literature in New Orleans or maybe it was Miami.